My view on Saber's kingship

I don't disagree with Saber's idea of kingship. I even think that it's ok to have regrets. But I disagree with her wish to go back and redo things, only because her people - the Anglo Saxons - had been pushed out by other tribes.

Her view is the unrealistic and naive view.

Britain nowadays is quite successful.  [ Success = measured by Human Development Index, GDP per capita, scientific-technological advancements, competent non-oppressive government ].

It shouldn't matter who is leading Britain, as long as it is a prosperous and one of the best countries nowadays.

The struggles between ethnic groups have always been stupid to no end because none has the vision to realize that they are all citizens of planet Earth. Yes, there was oppression and failure of some individual groups but the end-result turns out good (as opposed to the communist and sharia countries that are experiencing the bad result of the "wrong groups" winning). For Britain, does it mean that the losers should go back and rewrite the past just for the sake of being in control? Fuck no.

1. Because the present isn't a failure in any sense.
2. Doing that would change entire world's history. 
3. In case of Saber, she doesn't ask if today's humans would want a different leader.
4. There's no guarantee that the future they would bring would be as good as it is today.

Britain managed to leave huge global influences, and English is an international language nowadays. No other country can say the same.

Too bad her people were pushed out. But what comes? The future isn't worse because of it.

"I want to return Britain to glory."

"Britain is already glorious. What are you talking about?" When something is working, don't change it.

Saber is short-sighted for being fixated on the past instead of the present.  She failed to see that a kingdom divided against itself (feuding among the Knights of the Round Table) would inevitably fall or even that a perfectly united kingdom could never exist in the first place.

The time to try was in the past. Now wishing to undo the prosperous present to save the past is a personal wish, because the future could change for the worse and she doesn't think or care about that. The only time when it's ever ok to redo is when the present is doing so badly due to a particular past event and if you could go back to the turning point to change it (like what Chaldea does).

Did Saber ask whether her people and today's people would want to redo anything - even if it wouldn't change the entire world's history? She was the people's chosen king. Would they be happy with someone else? This is the point that Iskandar brought up: it would be an insult to the people in both past and present to redo especially when the present is doing well.

This is not just her people but humanity's advancement as a whole. Does Saber care about how her wish - if it came to fruition - would change the future? She cares about HER people but does she care about humanity as a whole and where it's heading? Is WHO is leading more important than WHAT they can do? Is this group superiority thinking?

This whole thing proves that her kingship belonged in the past and should not be meddling with the present day because she doesn't have a future vision.

Fate/Zero: Kings' Banquet (and how Gilgamesh sees Saber)

This scene is brilliant!  

The way each of the 3 kings define "King" is different.
But even when that is the case, they can accept the belief of certain views, but not others.

The 2 Kings before Saber make their thoughts clear to her.
No beating around the bush.

Also, Iskandar and Gilgamesh are just so badass.
Their rivalry and respect for each other is one of the highlights of the Servants in Fate/Zero.

Now let's go the meaning of the scene - this is how I understand it:

Gilgamesh's position is that he can do whatever he wants because he's got the power to do it.

Iskandar's position is that the king should be a relatable figure, which means being things like being greedy, holding one's head up high, being a leader figure, in order to win the hearts and minds of his subjects and unify them under those common terms. Ionioi Hetairoi is walking proof that this method worked.

Saber, on the other hand, holds the view of being good will result in good things. But she was good and her kingdom fell apart anyway. She thinks she was wrong somewhere along the way, regrets and wants to do it over again.  My view on Saber's kingship.

Iskandar scolds her on how she's ignoring the reality in favor of her pretty ideals and that's why her people couldn't get on her level. Gilgamesh finds her naivety amusing.

Iskandar dislikes how Saber regrets her kingship, and the burden she takes on as king, in his view, isn't how kingship should be. Wanting to erase everything by choosing someone else is an insult to the people who followed her to the very end since in his opinion, the King must believe in himself. So even if she pointed out to him how he had failed in his life, the point would still stand that regret isn't a thing to him.

How Gilgamesh sees Saber:

The whole scene makes it look like the only right one is Iskandar.  But: Gilgamesh's viewpoint isn't as simple as mocking Saber's ideal because he thinks it's wrong:

I believe him to be, on the spectrum of Iskandar to Arthuria, is closer to the latter. While in his youth he was tyrannical, later after he returned from his adventure, he was a wise and just king who ruled alone, by the law, for the people, and at the end died from overworking for his kingdom! Speaking from experience, he sees a "little girl" attempting to take on the responsibilities of kingship as ridiculous. To his eyes, her ideals and way of life are doomed to fail, yet she continues to fight against that inevitability. It's a stubbornness and idealism that he rarely sees, and he wants to see her struggle to attain the unattainable because of how amusing it will be. The way Gilgamesh sees her also has a touch of admiration because Gil always likes it when a human dares to reach for impossible goals (that's why he acknowledges her kingship and tells her that there's no right or wrong answer and that she should keep going on her path - see the Novel's excerpt below). At the same time, he finds her struggle amusing because it is futile, and in his twisted way, he tries to break her to see how strongly her conviction would hold up against him.

The difference between Gilgamesh and Arthuria lies in the fact that Arthuria let her role as a King consume her and turn her into something almost devoid of any joy and life, while King Gilgamesh wielded that title with pride, giving respect to his subjects and demanding it in return. He was not consumed but living at his fullest the joys and hardships of being King, while Arthuria regretted becoming one. Unlike Arthuria whose kingship is more of a one-sided love which withered and died at the end, Gilgamesh sacrificed a lot for his people but in his mind, he always believes that if the king met his demise, the people in Uruk would suffer greatly! So he stayed alive for the sake of his people. Gilgamesh was a happy King and regretted nothing.

Fate/Zero Novel Volume 3, Act 10, -84:19:03

– Once upon a time, there was a man. He was a foolish and ridiculous fellow whom, despite having a body made of mud and soil, set his heart to stand shoulder to shoulder with gods. 

Even to this day, the King of Heroes still couldn’t forget the way that he passed away with tears streaming down his face.  ................. Like so, when he saw that man taking his last breath, the incomparable king realized – the way that this man, who was human but wanted to surpass humanity, had lived, was even more precious and more brilliant than all the treasures he had collected. 

“You fool who stretch your hand towards realms not of men… There is only one person in heaven or earth who’s worthy of appreciating your destruction, and that is none other than I, Gilgamesh.
Sink into my embrace, oh you glorious and illusionary men. That is my decision.”

The golden majestic brilliance disappeared in the night mist, leaving only an evil laughter echoing long after.

Fate/Zero volume 4, final battle: 

"I don’t know why you are so obsessed with some wish-granting Grail. Saber… the fact that a woman like you exists can already be considered a rare miracle, no?”
Archer’s tone was unnaturally calm, as if it was not a dangerous enemy that was before him.
"Abandon these pointless ideals and vows! These things will only restrict you and bring you misfortune. In the future, you'll need only desire me and live under my protection. In that case I vow, on my honor as King of Everything, that I will grant you all the happiness in the world."

( So... the way Gilgamesh appreciates Saber is the same way he appreciated his friend Enkidu. I never thought there was some genuine admiration in his "Saber obsession" until I've seen Fate/Zero.

Gilgamesh wants to see exceptional things, especially people who are trying to do impossible things and have the abilities to come very close to obtaining these dreams, those who defy gods/destiny, those who never give up no matter what. Enkidu, Saber, Hakuno happened to have one of the traits that Gil admires in humans.

To Gilgamesh who believes that seeking pleasure is the proof of one's humanity, seeing Saber actively avoid seeking her own happiness is quite unsettling and fascinating to him. The difference is that, unlike in his interaction with Kirei, he doesn't let Saber make her own decision.

Saber is someone who, in Iskandar's words, "discarded youthful romance and dreams, discarded love, and sunk into the eternal curse of ideals".  Because of the way Arthuria was raised, she became "inhuman" since she discarded all her emotions; that's part of the reason Gilgamesh and Iskandar made fun of her, especially Gilgamesh seeing having desires is part of being humans so he probably sees her as a challenge to make her feel something other than regret towards her failures in life.  Very very few men, if any, would be interested in a woman who didn't even have love/marriage on her list of priorities. Only Gilgamesh appreciates a woman like that. I would go for women like that, too, as oppose to those who have little dreams/ambitions and only speak the language of "romance".

Note that I'm not trying to romanticize the whole thing. Gilgamesh never truly loves Saber and is quite disrespectful toward her. The irony is that should Saber ever lose sight of her ideal, he will drop her instantly.

In all of that, it's this admiration he has for her and this part alone seems genuine. I give credit where it deserves ).

Best fight in Fate: Iskandar vs. Gilgamesh

Iskandar vs. Gilgamesh in Fate/Zero is the most epic and emotional fight in all of Fate series!  What makes this fight so great is the mutual bond and respect that these two kings have for each other.
Iskandar knew that he would die but he charged on anyway.  What a king!  One can't ignore such bravery of a man who charged forth all alone to a glory far away on the horizon bathing in eternal sunlight.  A king worthy of leading all people standing firm behind him.  A king is there to lead, and people are to follow this conquest path to the Sun. A king can show how glorious life can be, and his people can decide for themselves to live to the ending days in glory.

In this fight, Gilgamesh looked a little sad - no triumphant laugh, no condescending comment, no joy, nothing - when he opened his Gate of Babylon to kill - an expression that Gil has never shown in any other fights so far - because he admired Iskandar's bravery and probably because Iskandar had proposed friendship to him just before the fight.

From the Fate/Zero novel:

To his worthy opponent, whose entire body was skewered from head to toe by the rain of Noble Phantasms, yet who did not stop until thwarted by the Chain of Heaven, the King of Heroes gave his greatest reward – he honored him with true feelings of admiration.

Gilgamesh showed appreciation for his fellow King’s efforts and praised Waver's loyalty. He also mostly forgot his trademark "zasshu/mongrel" even when addressing Waver). He let Ea be stained by Iskandar's blood to allow him an honorable death. I found his last words to Iskandar to be especially touching somehow: telling the whole world is simply his Garden (nice reference to the Hanging Gardens of Babylon), but adding that Iskandar will definitely never tire of it – basically accepting Iskandar claim to try and conquer it – was a pretty nice touch!

One could never think that Gilgamesh is the only one who spared a Master's life in this bloody War.  He spared Waver out of respect and admiration for Iskandar (for Iskandar was a king who inspired his people, and Waver was a living proof of that), and also out of admiration for Waver's loyalty.

"... If I challenge you, I would die."
"Of course."
"I can't do that. I was ordered to live."
Yes - he couldn't die. Not now, when the last words entrusted to him by the King were engraved into his heart.
Waver must escape from this dilemma no matter what. He was before an enemy Servant and had no way to defend himself; even though it was a desperate situation where nothing could be done - the one thing he definitely could not do was give up. He could not ignore the way he had made the oath.
And that was perhaps a pain far more cruel than resigning himself to death.
The boy shook helplessly before the death he could not escape from, but his gaze alone made his adamance known. Looking down wordlessly on that too-small stature for a short while, Gilgamesh simply nodded once.
"The path of devotion is a great labor. Do not ever mar it!"
He had no reason to raise his hand against a mongrel who was neither Master nor traitor. That was his decision as the King.

In any other circumstances, these two kings would be drinking buddies. If there were no Enkidu, Gilgamesh would have been friends with Iskandar, which is something no else can say. (Iskandar's charisma was so strong that it worked on a demi-god! LOL).

The OST in this scene is "You Are My King".

PS:  Ufotable's animation quality is amazing!

Immortality is fantastic!

I believe immortality is a wonderful thing and that all of the reasons for it being bad are just not strong enough to convince me otherwise.

I get that living forever can seem scary; the unknown is. But that is just individual perceptions of immortality. This is not what humanity as a whole agrees upon. People who don't want to live forever or only want to live to a certain age can just kill themselves when they are tired of living.

Earth's overpopulation would be the only problem to worry about on a large scale. But with more time to tackle this issue, we can keep working on them. I don't know the solutions yet - maybe we'll live on Mars - but that's the whole excitement of living to see the ever-changing future: We can keep trying things and learning and pushing for improvement. Imagine what great achievements would come about if humanity's greatest minds (eg, Newton, Einstein, Tesla, etc) were given immortality?

I don't agree with the argument that "without death, humans can't grow". Where did people get the idea that the longer life is, the less meaningful it becomes? Why do some people seem so adamant that continuing on and foregoing the mental and physical degradation we currently deem acceptable is such a bad thing? Remember that humans nowadays can and have the conditions to achieve far more than we ever did because the we don't have to struggle for most basic necessities like ancient humans did. Being freed from bothering about those kinds of inconveniences, we have been able to concentrate on enriching our minds.

In 1900, the average human lifespan was 47 year​s. By 2000, they live​d to 76. Are middle-aged people today wishing they could speed through the next few decades and get them over with? Do those pushing 100 feel like they've been dealt a bad hand?

Not-dying is what we strive for with medical advances, after all. And if you don't think we should continue striving to live as long as possible, where's your cut-off line? Reaching a point where we can live for as long as we want seems like a pretty natural conclusion. Immortality doesn't seem like such a big dream.

The "no progress" argument assumes that death is the only struggle humans do/will ever face in life. This is immortality, not invincibility. There will always be new challenges, new horizons to reach, eg, will we be able to become an interstellar species?

Favorite character: Saber Nero

Some people say Nero's personality is "flat" but I disagree. Nero isn't flat. She has more personality than Arthuria. (Comparing the two is inevitable since the designer made their appearances so similar).  I really like her in Fate/Extra: Last Encore, the way she encourages her Master, the way she shares her experiences. Her lively, uplifting personality is a source of motivation for the MC. SHAFT managed to make her very cute in art, voice and manner.  Her "Imperial Privilege" is a cool ability!  She's confident and arrogant but not annoying, like a female Gilgamesh, and very entertaining to watch.

"I will set my life ablaze for the sake of those who think I am beautiful!"

Nero is passionate and energetic but not overdone. She bravely smiles and accepts her past mistakes and flaws without regret. Even though she had suffered a lot, she still tries to be the most cheerful as she can be.  She radiates that "I am a Queen!" charisma. (On the contrary, while Arthuria is noble and dignified, I don't feel that radiance from her...)

Also, I love her chemistry with Hakuno! It's more fun and friendly than Arthuria's with Shirou. In Fate/Extella, she has the most beautiful speech/moment with Hakuno ever!

My only complaint about Nero is her design:  it's Arthuria replica with big breasts. Ugh. I don't want her to look identical to Arthuria. A little change in her appearance would go a long way in distinguishing her as a character - like how a fan artist drew her in this picture on the left.

Fate series: Caster Gilgamesh Valentine scene

https://youtu.be/4taEA0YcpUQ

Gilgamesh:  "What, a gift?  From you, to me?

..... You really don't know fear, do you? 
I didn't think you would get ahead of me and give me something.

Well, I will take it as a strong point of yours.
After all, you're the idiot who got through that difficult situation with courage alone.

Then? Where is it?
Don't make me wait too much. Hurry up and hand it over!

............
Hey, is this that thing? That thing which all the Heroic Spirits are making a fuss over about?  Valentine's chocolate?

N---!
You fool! Just who do you think I am?! 
Even if I'm being more prudent now, I'm still the great King of Uruk, who collected all the treasures of the world!  
Well, Ishtar took a part of them, but, leaving that aside.  
To give me something like this...
Aren't you ashamed!? Reflect on yourself!"

[ Choices:
1. As I thought, homemade chocolates from an amateur weren't good!
2. If only we had a high-class brand shop in Chaldea! ]

"You fool! I'm not talking about quality. It's about quantity.  
This won't last two bites.  
With this amount of sweets, our banquet will be over in an instant!
Do you think that your fun time with the King will last only a few minutes?!

..... Hmph. You're truly hopeless.
But this must be the limit of a poor Master.
It can't be helped. This time, specially for you, I'll show you a real Valentine.
Follow me, Guda.
You'll learn what my Uruk (treasure) really is!"

Basically... Gilgamesh first complained about your gift, saying that 'quantity matters as much as quality'.  Then he said, "Do you think that your fun time with the king will last only a few minutes?"  ( XD )

Then he invited you on "A Whole New World" trip to see Uruk - it is his greatest treasure so it's like him showing you a part of his heart. He sure knows how to make you feel special.

Caster Gilgamesh is so nice, isn't he?  And Uruk looks absolutely stunning!  (I didn't think that ~2600BC could look that beautiful).

This is a fanservice event but an awesome scene and this is what Caster Gilgamesh would totally do.

Why the upset with Gilgamesh killing Illya?

The scene in which Gilgamesh killed Illya in Fate/Stay Night: Unlimited Blade Works is a big reason that many fans (especially Illya's fans) hate Gil for. They say, "Gil's torturing and killing a little girl", "she had a rough life, was mentally unstable, so she deserved more sympathy", "Gil was torturing Heracles", blah blah blah.  Here's my rebuttal:

1. Illya acts like a little girl but she's 18.  (I clarified this because some people act as if killing a loli were worse than killing a normal-sized adult).  Her appearance may gain her more sympathy than other adults would, but her role in the HGW made it a fair game.  Some people think she's an "innocent little girl" but Illya is bloodthirsty "little girl" who's out for blood as much as any Fate/Zero Masters did. I don't care how Prisma Illya or Carnival Phantasm portrayed her. I'm sure she wouldn't spare anyone's life if she's having the upper hand. For example, in her words: “Berserker, I don’t care what you do with Saber and Rin. You can kill them or rape them”. In VN Bad End, she keeps Shirou barely alive just to physically torture him. But "it's ok because she had a bad life," right?  /s
2. Illya - like her mother - was created by the Einzbern to serve as the vessels in HGW - to die, even IF they won the War. There was no victory for them. Illya was programmed to self-destruct in a few years. Their fates were sealed from the moment they were born. 
3. HGW is a life-or-death battle. Regardless of Illya's appearance, the only thing that mattered is: Did she understand the implication (life-or-death) of participating in a HGW or not? Did she understand the rules of a HGW? Did she participate voluntarily? Illya definitely understood these things, which equate to full competence. 
4. Her being a loli doesn't mean that other participants should have yielded to her. If you're weaker, you'll lose. You can't go around whining, because you fight voluntarily. It's like you're playing at a casino but can't accept losses. It's like L vs. Light in Death Note: they knew what's at stake but they entered anyway, so could either of them complain about being killed by the other?  
5. Illya's past:  All Masters in the 4th and 5th HGWs felt compelled to enter the HGW one way or another. This isn't a competition of whose past is the worst (considering that characters like Kariya, Sakura and Rin have terrible pasts, too)!  While I feel sympathy for Illya's life and Kariya Matou's plight, I do not feel hate toward the characters that killed them.
6. The part where Gil ripped her heart out wasn't torture (like some people claim it was) since she's already dead. Gilgamesh could have done it while she's still having her final moment with Berserker but he waited till she's dead instead.  If any kind of killing where an opponent does not die instantly is torture (as some fans claim), then 99% of killings in anime are torture. 
7. It looks like some people want nothing less than an absolutely painless instant death for Illya. But there's no such thing as NOT suffering when being killed. If you want instant death, there's just 1 option: cutting their head off - which people will argue as being more cruel.
8. It's ridiculous that some fans go as far as saying that "Gil was torturing Heracles"!  Seriously? Gil was having a fair fight with Heracles. Gil just happened to be stronger. So be it.  Gil annihilated Iskandar and no one complains. Yet when a loli is involved, people seem to lose their minds.
9. Nobody owed anybody an honorable death in the HGW. Look at how the Masters killed each other!  Gil killed Iskandar, whom he actually liked and respected, in 1 stab in the stomach - which was respectful as far as killing goes - but Iskandar didn't die instantly. Does that mean that Gil was torturing him? No. (It's worth noting that Sella's and Illya's loyalty must have very much impressed Gilgamesh, because it's generally a big deal when he actually took hold of one of his weapons to kill a person instead of just launching them).

Overall, I have zero problem with Illya being killed by anyone. Because the moment she entered the HGW, she's a participant like everyone else. I don't give extra sympathy to other characters (some of whom had horrifying pasts, too), and neither to her.