Fate series: The View on Immortality

This is a combined post written by me and Ashe_Black.  I agree 100% with Ashe_Black.

The general theme in the Fate Universe has always been that the antagonist or the "perceived villain" are the ones who seek immortality or believes immortality to be a benefit to humanity. While the protagonists have always been those who oppose it or believe it to be a detriment to humanity. 

Fate generally argues that using Magic to grant humans immortality would be akin to cheating, or halting their growth, or is just bad. For reasons as trite as because it is not natural.

I completely disagree with Fate's view on immortality.

In The Epic of Gilgamesh, the only reason that Gilgamesh (and mankind) didn't become immortal was that the Herb of Immortality that he had obtained was eaten by a snake. But in Fate, it was said that Gilgamesh "went back and obtained the Herb of Immortality again just for the sake of collection" but didn't use it because blah blah. Total BS and out of character for Gilgamesh! To Gilgamesh, he did not only fear death because he loved living, it was also because he wanted to observe humanity's path until its very end, so he saw death as an end to his duty as humanity's guardian. In Fate/Zero, he agreed to participate in the HGW because, in his words, Tokiomi had summoned and given him a body/a second life ("I treat him as my vassal and he supplies me with mana"), and that he later let Tokiomi be killed when Tokiomi planned to kill him. In UBW ending, we see that Gilgamesh stubbornly clings to life. It's because he hasn't fulfilled his goal or it's because he wants to see Kirei's path, etc. For whatever reason, for whatever purposes you see him cling to life, it shows that he still sees purposes in life and never wants to die. So, if Gilgamesh successfully obtained a method for immortality, he would no doubt use it!  "Oh I'm over death" is an excuse to insert the "immortality isn't good" notion into the work - this is the authors' view - and not a representation of how the character should be. Gilgamesh in The Epic became more human because he had failed to achieve what he wanted, failed to overcome his human limitations. His brief sense of accomplishment and joy vanished just as quickly as he obtained it - that made him realize the full extent of his humanity, which was the final crucial step that completed him as a man and connected him with his people. The grief of Gilgamesh, the questions that death evoked and his quest for immortality resonate with every human being who has wrestled with the meaning of life in the face of death. Also in The Epic, Gilgamesh could not achieve the kind of immortality that was available to gods.  Fate - by having him able to obtain immortality but turn it down by his own will - negates the whole meaning of his journey. Fictional authors have been using characters to speak their own minds, and anti-immortality is the message that Fate wants the audience to believe.

Gilgamesh, Alucard, Sun Wukong, etc. - all these characters who strive for immortality have an interesting thing in common:  They all share a great fear of death. That fear alone motivated them to master great deeds.   Their desire for immortality and power was also motivated by the fear of losing what they had.  This is a very HUMAN desire, considering that immortality has always been humanity's greatest dream!

There's nothing "unnatural" about immortality - just as there's nothing unnatural about the advancement of Medicine and technology.

Given that life has been struggling to evolve and survive as long as possible through any means possible, reproduction is just a very poor form of immortality. If we could pass on our consciousness through our offspring akin to instinct then it would be by definition immortality.

Not only in Fate but in a lot of other fictions (like Hellsing), the anti-immortality perception is widespread.  I believe that it is some authors' way of giving solace to themselves and to the human audience watching their fictions. Ultimately it's all a form of convincing oneself that one's own state is okay because there is no better alternative realistically.  IF the immortality option is actually available to us, how many of us will honestly turn it down?!

As I wrote about this for Hellsing, I completely disagree with the "reject immortality for any reason" notion. Because it is anti-progress for attempting to put a stop on humans  dreaming about and striving for the possibility to begin with. More of my view on Immortality

Immortality is fantastic!

I believe immortality is a wonderful thing and that all of the reasons for it being bad are just not strong enough to convince me otherwise.

I get that living forever can seem scary; the unknown is. But that is just individual perceptions of immortality. This is not what humanity as a whole agrees upon. People who don't want to live forever or only want to live to a certain age can just kill themselves when they are tired of living.

Earth's overpopulation would be the only problem to worry about on a large scale. But with more time to tackle this issue, we can keep working on them. I don't know the solutions yet - maybe we'll live on Mars - but that's the whole excitement of living to see the ever-changing future: We can keep trying things and learning and pushing for improvement. Imagine what great achievements would come about if humanity's greatest minds (eg, Newton, Einstein, Tesla, etc) were given immortality?

I don't agree with the argument that "without death, humans can't grow". Where did people get the idea that the longer life is, the less meaningful it becomes? Why do some people seem so adamant that continuing on and foregoing the mental and physical degradation we currently deem acceptable is such a bad thing? Remember that humans nowadays can and have the conditions to achieve far more than we ever did because the we don't have to struggle for most basic necessities like ancient humans did. Being freed from bothering about those kinds of inconveniences, we have been able to concentrate on enriching our minds.

In 1900, the average human lifespan was 47 year​s. By 2000, they live​d to 76. Are middle-aged people today wishing they could speed through the next few decades and get them over with? Do those pushing 100 feel like they've been dealt a bad hand?

Not-dying is what we strive for with medical advances, after all. And if you don't think we should continue striving to live as long as possible, where's your cut-off line? Reaching a point where we can live for as long as we want seems like a pretty natural conclusion. Immortality doesn't seem like such a big dream.

The "no progress" argument assumes that death is the only struggle humans do/will ever face in life. This is immortality, not invincibility. There will always be new challenges, new horizons to reach, eg, will we be able to become an interstellar species?

Castlevania seasons 1+2 Review

- It's utter irony that all the world's scientific knowledge is in the mind of Dracula while the humans are worshiping god and destroying centuries of knowledge!

- It's also irony that nobody asks how the magic works in this anime: it breaks science. Ahh the coexistence of magic and science isn't possible - unless all of the magics can be explained by science somehow.

- The religious assholes are the true villains of this series. They are deluded, pure evil shits. At least more than half of mankind at that time consisted of humans who didn't want to live in harmony with others, eg, proven by the priests who killed Lisa. Dracula is evil, too, but he listens to reason (as proven by when Lisa entered his castle), values science and certain human qualities in people. As Alucard said, Dracula could use his centuries of knowledge to improve mankind. Normal humans like Lisa could live in harmony with him. Imagine how advanced the world would be without the Dark Ages!

- The character of Dracula:  how this anime portrays Dracula impresses me: The scene in which he throws Isaac away to save his life speaks to his character. Although he is a monster who has done monstrous deeds and sees humans as cattle, he's also a fair-minded being who listens to logic and reason (even if it comes from a human) and is capable of real love and is willing to change his way for his loved ones. He values science, loyalty and true friendship.

- I knew early on that Dracula's Generals were going to turn against him later. That's where Dracula is being careless to employ these individuals:  your enemies are sure to kill you, but when you have 'friends' from the inside who want to kill you, too, you're doomed.

- The scene where Dracula snaps out of it must be the best moment in this season! I was hoping for a father-to-son heart-to-heart conversation that would end the war but... well.

- Seeing the ending where Alucard sits alone in the castle crying, a realization dawns on me:  Damn, religious assholes ruined it for everybody!

- If the anime ends here, it is a satisfying enough ending to me. I know there are more seasons after this and I wonder what they will be about. The only two characters I care about are Dracula and Alucard. Isaac is interesting, too, but I don't really care to see more of his life unless he's working for Dracula or Alucard.

- Animation quality:  the fighting scenes aren't so fluid, but the final fight in Dracula's castle is very satisfying to watch.  The animators didn't do a good job conveying the bonds among the three protagonists:  for example, the few scenes where they giggle and laugh together look very awkward.

Hellsing Ultimate: Immortality and Humanity

THE THEME OF "ONLY A HUMAN CAN DEFEAT A MONSTER":

The fact is that monsters are slaughtering humans and humans (the Hellsing Org.) need to employ monsters to kill them.

Alucard says time and time again that only a human can kill him. However, he doesn't regard all humanity as the pinnacle of existence - just humans who are courageous enough to stand up to monsters. Not every human will qualify. Alucard just wants to be killed by someone worthy of killing him - a hero so to speak. Anderson isn't entirely human and Alucard still thinks of him as worthy. Seeing how humans are inherently weaker than monsters, they have quite a challenge on their hands to fight the monsters. He has huge respect for humans who can. He's also a monster that was bested and captured by humans, and he has grown to respect the ones who can show him strength and resolve. He is also portrayed like a loyal dog in some ways, as in, a dog that respects and is happy with a strong-minded Master.

A lot of his hatred of monsters seems to come from the fact that quite a few of them are pale imitations of himself, like the Valentine brothers.  "Only a human can defeat a monster" - it is ultimately proven untrue by the events of the show. Rather, the theme is more about the blurring of the line between humans and monsters. The very worst people are humans, and the greatest beings are monsters.

IMMORTALITY:

"To become a monster like me is to admit you were too weak to remain a human".

I disagree.  Fear of death is not a weakness.  All sentient beings are.  I'd argue that the will to live is stronger than anything. As Kenshin Himura has said, "One can die at any time. Living takes real courage".  Forget about the real historical Vlad; I'm talking about Hellsing's Vlad/Dracula:  Despite all the monstrous things he did, his life was full of misfortunes (was raped repeatedly as a child, wife and children were killed, lost his kingdom, everything). He himself was facing death, what was he to do?  Accept death as a human or wish to live as something else? He chose to live.

There are many humans who would turn down immortality if it meant they would live alone for eternity without their loved ones, or live in pain. Are they the strong ones? In my view, only people who have the will and the courage to persevere despite hardships (like Alucard and Seras) are the strong ones.

Alucard was once human, however due to certain things in his life, he threw away his humanity to become what he is today. He perceives this as his own weakness and thus, to some extent, considers himself less than a human.  This is why he ends up hating Anderson so much, because in a way, he saw his former "weak" self.

Alucard, Gilgamesh, Sun Wukong, etc. All these characters who strive for immortality have an interesting thing in common:  They share a great fear of death. That fear alone motivated some of them to master the magics. Alucard's desire for immortality and power was also motivated by the fear of losing what he had.  This is a very HUMAN reason to wish for power and immortality, considering that immortality has always been humanity's greatest dream.

Alucard believes that he was too weak to face mortality and found solace in immortality. But are humans who have the courage to live and die as humans the admirable ones?  I disagree.  We HAVE TO live and die as humans because we have no other choice realistically.  However, in a magical world where there is a choice to extend one's life and eventual immortality - and especially when gaining immortality in this world doesn't take away one's intelligence and autonomy - NOT choosing it is wasting one's life to me.  Also in Hellsing, it is reiterated that humans are superior to others, and that's the reason humans should not succumb to magical powers. But I see nothing wrong with accepting these powers in order to become stronger.

HUMAN SUPERIORITY:

Humans as a species are indeed ruling the Earth. We have accomplished things that other species could never dream of, and we never stop progressing. However, we are also the biggest monsters to one another and to other species. In the realistic non-fictional world, humanity as a whole is superior, but the individual humans are not. Being a human does not automatically qualify you as superior. Each human must be judged for who he is and what he is capable of. In the fictional worlds where non-human species such as vampires and aliens exist, humans are far from being the superior ones among them all. We are weaker than them physically and we are probably not any more intelligent than them. To declare ourselves "superior" is to claim that their powers (eg, immortality, regeneration, superhuman strength,...) are somehow "inferior". Truth is, they are not inferior. Objectively speaking, THEY are the superior ones that we might learn from rather than taking too much pride in ourselves that we become blind to our own limits. It is important to realize and accept our own limits. Besides mental capabilities, we aren't stronger than them in any other aspect. 

Alucard only regards humans' will to live and perseverance as superior because those are things that he has lost long ago, since having lived for so long, he has grown bored of most things and found no purpose in his life. He may not realize it, but his will to live and his mental strength are second to none: Although he may regret becoming a monster, I don't think he would choose to undo his choice even if time could go back. Through it all, he's still too stubborn to die. He could have drifted into non-existence when the Major "defeated" him, but he didn't. He wills himself into existence again. He is like Seras in that regard: Despite everything that happened in his past, he still clings to life.

Not only in Hellsing but in a lot of other fictions, the anti-immortality viewpoint is widespread. I believe that it is some authors' way of giving solace to themselves and to the human audience watching their fictions. Ultimately it's all a form of convincing oneself that one's own state is okay because there is no better alternative realistically.  More of my view on Immortality

Heartbeats of the Universe

When we receive the first signal, life on Earth will change forever...
NASA's SETI project has installed gigantic antennas to receive signals from extraterrestrial beings, and at the same time, sending out signals as radio waves that travel at the speed of light. The nearest star to us is 60 light-years away. Look at it both ways: if there were intelligent lives in another part of the galaxy, their "noises" would have reached us by now. But we haven't received any signal. Why?
Is life so rare that it exists only on Earth? Look at Earth's conditions, one can't help but realize lives on Earth - including non-human lives - are precious. Take Europa, whose surface is a frozen ocean, for comparison - there may be lives underneath the icy surface, but probably not intelligent lives. Or look at Io (another Jupiter's moon), a world comparable to Dante's Inferno, where volcanoes never stop erupting.
Lives are being able to thrive on Earth because of the Sun and the Earth's atmosphere that protects us.
But our Sun, too - 5 billion years from now - will die.
By that time, everything will end here.
But will it be the end of humanity?
Death is the ultimate price we will pay to have human consciousness, intelligence, emotions and other capabilities, to be aware of all that shimmering awareness and all that love.
Being in this world is already a privilege. Considering all possible genetic combinations that happen by chance, it's amazing that I happened at all.

What does it mean to be immortal?

Unlike all other creatures on this planet, we humans are the only ones who are aware of our transience.

Immortality - a quest for more Time - is a dream that has driven humanity for generations.
We are in a constant search for the Elixir of Life. We yearn for the lost time that lingers on in our memory.

Of all time's effects on us, the most profound is that one day, it will end. Our time is limited, so our Time is precious. The knowledge of limited Time has shaped us as humans.

If we could hold back an amount of Time, what would it mean for us?

Happy People Dancing on Planet Earth

What are these humans doing?
Dancing.
Many humans on Earth exhibit periods of happiness, and one method of displaying happiness is dancing. Happiness and dancing transcend boundaries and occur in every human society.
Matt Harding traveled through many nations on Earth, started dancing, and filmed the result. The video is perhaps a dramatic example that humans from all over planet Earth feel a common bond as part of a single species. Happiness is frequently contagious -- few people are able to watch this video without smiling.

Praan (the ‘Stream of Life’) song:

The same stream of life that runs through my veins night and day
runs through the world and dances in rhythmic measures.
It is the same life that shoots in joy through the dust of the earth
in numberless blades of grass
and breaks into tumultuous waves of leaves and flowers.
It is the same life that is rocked in the ocean-cradle of birth
and of death, in ebb and in flow.
I feel my limbs are made glorious by the touch of this world of life
And my pride is from the life-throb of ages dancing in my blood this moment.

Climax of Humanity

BY GEORGE MUSSER from Scientific American :

The 21st century feels like a letdown.
We were promised flying cars, space colonies and 15-hour workweeks.
Robots were supposed to do our chores, except when they were organizing rebellions;
children were supposed to learn about disease from history books;
portable fusion reactors were supposed to be on sale at the Home Depot.
Even dystopian visions of the future predicted leaps of technology and social organization
that leave our era in the dust.

As humanity grows in size and wealth, however, it increasingly presses against the limits of the planet. Already we pump out carbon dioxide three times as fast as the oceans and land can absorb it; midcentury is when climatologists think global warming will really begin to bite. At the rate things are going, the world’s forests and fisheries will be exhausted even sooner.

The trends are evident in everyday life. Many of us have had the experience of getting lost in our hometowns becausethey have grown so much. But growth is slowing as families shrink. Ever more children grow up not just without siblingsbut also without aunts, uncles or cousins. (Some people find that sad, but the only other way to have a stable populationis for death rates to rise)

Continue: http://www.scientificamerican.com/article.cfm?id=the-climax-of-humanity

. . .

Are we alone in the Universe?

For ~50 years, the Search for Extra Terrestrial Intelligence (SETI) has been scanning the galaxy for a message from an alien civilization. So far to no avail, but a recent breakthrough suggests they may one day succeed:
Horizon joins the planet hunters who've discovered a new world called Gliese 581c [ http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PmTjAmop688 ]. It is the most Earth-like planet yet found orbiting around another star and may have habitats capable of supporting life. NASA too hopes to find 50 more Earth-like planets by the end of the decade, all of which dramatically increases the chance that alien life has begun elsewhere in the galaxy.

We must be assuming that aliens are peaceful in order to search for them like this.
What if they're not ?

"We spend our life in 3 spatial dimensions, confident that what we can see with our telescopes is all there is, ignorant of the possibility of 10-dimensional hyperspace. Although these higher dimensions are invisible, their ripples can clearly be seen and felt. We call these ripples gravity and light."