I absolutely detest this ending in which the universe is reset, thus effectively erased everything we know. All the characters in the previous Parts are replaced by alternate versions of themselves so they aren't the same characters that we know anymore. The timeline that we know is gone. Everyone IS dead and the result IS a fresh universe. This is the biggest defeat for the Joestars and their allies.
1/ You can say that "Jolyne is reborn as Irene" and "everyone from Parts 1-5 still exists as they are" but that is not the same characters that we know. This is NOT similar to the case of Dio where he just glued his head to Jonathan's body. This is a complete overwrite - an analogy is rewriting a hard disk in your computer = all your data got replaced by new data. Jolyne's group did not simply kill Pucci and be done with it; when Pucci dies, the universe is reset into a new universe where he doesn't exist. A universe where the course of events doesn't allow for Pucci's existence simply cannot be the same universe. Even IF the new timeline is 100% similar to the old one, it is still a different one. Not to mention that in this timeline, the characters have lived different lives with different relationships: 'Anasui' dating 'Jolyne', Jotaro being a good father, the gang not in prison, etc.
The Joestars are freed from Dio's curse and having completely new lives.
Also, for the Dio Curse to go away, there must be a substantial change to all events in time.
No Dio curse = no Part 3 = no friendships with Kakyoin, Polnareff, Avdol = no character development for Jotaro = Part 5 changes completely without Polnareff.
An analogy is if you created a clone of yourself before you died and the clone lived on, the clone is still NOT you. It is just a copy of you. It doesn't change the fact that YOU - the original version - had died.
2/ Memories and experiences are a large part of what makes you who you are. The character F.F. shows us that: when F.F. died, she was dead because her memories were destroyed. That's why it was important to Jolyne to keep her father's memory disc from fading away, because she knew that those memories were what made Jotaro Jotaro.
These new universe versions might have happy lives but they're strangers to us the readers. It's not a happy ending.
3/ There are other ways to free the Joestars from Dio's curse. For instance, I would like Part 6 if the author let Giorno show up and use his Gold Experience Requiem to PREVENT Pucci from resetting in the universe in the first place, then eliminate him. That would be a logical conclusion. (I'd also like Giorno to meet the other JoJos). Then Araki could have made the characters in the later Parts descendants of Jolyne or Giorno.
4/ Because of this kind of ending, I don't feel like I can enjoy the later Parts of JJBA as much because everything thereafter takes place in a different universe. Even though Part 7 is considered the best Part by many people, I'm really not a fan of it starting a new universe. I fell in love with the universe and the characters we already had, and it was special how everything was connected in one way or another. But now we leave it behind and move to new, different stories that frankly don't have the same weight.
12 August 2019
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I think you got a few things wrong here, I doubt I could explain it as well as most in the stardust crusaders reddit so I highly suggest you go and check it out. As for not being interested in reading the parts after part 6, I'd say still give it a go. Your reasoning for not wanting to try and read them is a little ridiculous.
ReplyDeleteI've read all the stuff people wrote on Reddit - A lot of people misinterpret this Ending and/or don't want to accept that all the characters they love were gone. I see the same thing happening in the Dragon Ball fandom when many people think that Future Trunk got a "happy ending" when what actually happened was the erasure of his entire timeline! I see the same thing happening with people who want to clone their dead pets, believing that they are the same entities - they simply aren't!
DeleteI have my reasons for enjoying or not enjoying something though your taste might differ.
Also, I just noticed comments have to be approved before being posted so I'm going to assume you haven't been liking what people have to say since there are absolutely no comments posted here.
ReplyDeleteWhat a ridiculous accusation! I've been getting >5 spam comments daily so this has to be filtered.
DeleteSorry, but I just read the Stone Ocean, and I really want to disagree.
ReplyDeleteYou noticed that one of the themes in the manga is the memory manipulation - and that is the main reason why I think that Joyline and Irene are the same characters.
Why? Because there really isn't a difference between rewriting past and rewriting our memories of the past. Both change our personalities, and the more severe is rewrite, the more character becomes not-her or not-him.
And, therefore, if you think that Joyline is not Irene, then you are obligated to think that Weather Report is not Wes Bluemarine. And I think you will agree with me that Weather Report is Wes Bluemarine.
And, yes, my exact clone with my exact memory is me ;-)
I agree with your analysis but I loved the somber ending. For me this is the best direction Araki could have taken. Giorno showing up would have been too convenient. And having your favorite characters taken away from you with out hope of a reconciliation is peak Araki tho.
ReplyDeletePeople always want a happy ending and get angry when the ending is not exactly that. I admit I didnt like this ending a lot, especially because Im not in favor of alternate universes (thats why I dislike the marvel franchise and stuff like that)but if that is direction Araki wanted to take the story for the future of the next parts, then I think this ending was really good. We got to see the main characters in this alternate universe and how Dios curse is not pestering the Joestars anymore. I think this change of universes did not affect what happened in earlier parts or maybe just part 5 because in a world without Pucci there would be no further major threats to the Joestars after Dio is defeated, which is bound to happen.
ReplyDeleteI do not even "want a happy ending". I simply hate "alternate universe" ideas.
DeleteLike 2 years late but... Of course we want happy endings! Most of us live shitty lives, so why would we want to read about sad stuff in our escapism?
DeleteShit blew my mind I get your point how it ruins the relationship aspect of the characters and stuff. It stucks for Emp to be in the middle of all that. It makes me want to read the story cause literally what tf is gonna happen next you know? Also how he wraps it all up together idk .
ReplyDelete